Transcripts
What You Missed On The Vector Episode 25: Lunar Operations and a Cislunar Economy: Unlocking Opportunities Beyond Earth
Written by: Morsiell Dormu
In this episode of The Vector, Kelli Kedis Ogborn, Vice President of Space Commerce & Entrepreneurship at the Space Foundation, hosts Takeshi Hakamada, CEO of ispace, for an in-depth exploration of the rapidly evolving cislunar economy and the pivotal role of lunar operations in shaping the future of space commerce.
With ispace’s Resilience lander en route to the moon and a mission slated to attempt a lunar landing on June 5th, Hakamada shares the motivations, milestones, and long-term strategy driving their efforts to build sustainable lunar infrastructure. From commercial resource extraction to international partnerships, this episode outlines how the moon is becoming the next frontier for science, industry, and global cooperation.
Highlights include Takeshi’s insights on:
The Rise of Commercial Lunar Missions
Takeshi reflects on the momentum behind recent lunar activity by companies like Firefly Aerospace, Intuitive Machines, and ispace—and explains how public-private partnerships and investor interest have catalyzed this historic moment.
Building a Cislunar Economy Through Resource Utilization
ispace is pioneering efforts to commercially extract and sell lunar resources, including regolith transactions with NASA. This marks a critical step in establishing a market for space-based raw materials that could power long-term space infrastructure.
Key Infrastructure Needs for a Lunar Economy
Transportation, communications, navigation, and power supply are identified as foundational components for a sustainable lunar ecosystem. Hakamada advocates for hybrid energy solutions, including both solar and nuclear, to support diverse mission needs.
Private Investment vs. Government Funding
While U.S. companies benefit from NASA contracts like CLPS, ispace has taken a unique path—bootstrapped by private investment from day one. Takeshi outlines the challenges and advantages of scaling lunar operations without early government backing.
International Engagement and Regulatory Frameworks
As one of the first to engage in lunar resource transactions, ispace’s operations raise vital questions about ownership, environmental protection, and cultural preservation on the moon. Hakamada stresses the importance of developing flexible yet responsible frameworks for future governance.
The Role of Industry in a Geopolitically Complex Landscape
With offices in Japan, the U.S., and Europe, ispace is strategically positioned as a global player. Takeshi shares how multinational operations can help companies navigate national interests while promoting peaceful and collaborative development of space.
This episode is a must-listen for anyone interested in the future of space commerce—from investors and policy leaders to scientists and aspiring entrepreneurs. It offers a hopeful yet grounded look at the next giant leap in our space journey: building a sustainable, inclusive economy beyond Earth.
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Episode Transcript:
Kelli Kedis Ogborn:
Hello everyone and welcome to the Vector where we discuss topics, trends, and insights shaping the global space ecosystem. I am your host Keli Kedis Ogborn, and this episode is going to focus on an object that has always dominated our curiosity, but recently has been dominating our news cycle. And I’m talking about the moon. This year alone, we have seen three very visible lunar missions by commercial companies completed by this month. The first was Firefly Aerospace, blue Ghost Mission one, which achieved the first fully successful lunar landing by a commercial company on March 2nd. The first commercial company, of course, actually landing on the moon was intuitive machines. And intuitive machines actually launched their second mission. I am two, which landed again on the lunar surface on March 6th. And iSpace has their Huck to our mission called resilience, which launched in January, did a successful lunar fly by in February and is going to land on the moon or attempt to land on the lunar surface on June 5th.
And for this discussion, I am extremely excited to welcome the founder and CEO of iSpace to talk all things moon, the cis lunar economy, and really give his perspective about the necessity of the utilization of the resources as well as why this is of importance to humanity and exploration. I’m excited to bring on Takeshi Hakamada, who got into the space industry actually inspired by Star Wars as a child and he really set out to pursue life focused on space exploration. He went on to earn a master’s degree in aerospace engineering from Georgia Tech where he was involved in the conceptual design of next generation aerospace systems. In 2010 while working for a management consulting firm, he worked part-time to lead the Japanese team Hatu, which was one of the finalists for the Google Lunar XPRIZE competition. And he later changed that team’s management to iSpace Incorporated as the founder and CEO. He has raised record fundraising for the company and is now leading a multinational commercial lunar exploration program. He is an active proponent for the commercial space industry and is guiding ice space to continuously challenge itself, to enable humans to establish a sustainable ecosystem between the earth and the moon by unlocking the utilization of space resources. Haan, welcome to the show.
Takeshi Hakamada:
Thank you very much having me.
Kelli Kedis Ogborn:
Of course, I am very excited to talk to you particularly because your mission, no kidding, is literally on its way to the moon and will be hopefully landing successfully in June. So there’s a lot of excitement around what this brings to bear, not just for your company but really for the future of the lunar space. Before we dive into some of the more particulars around the conversation, I would love to get your perspective about why the SIS lunar landscape is so important, not just for economic growth but really for exploration and for science at large.
Takeshi Hakamada:
Yes, so this lunar region is becoming more important in this three because one is for the deeper exploration in order to reach to the models or the deeper space. I believe that stable operation activity in SI is critical for the sustainable exploration for the deeper space in the future and also having that C region be operative and more active on the space activities. We can protect activity on the earth at the end as well because recently our modern life is supported by the many of the space infrastructure like satellite so on. And then this dependency become much higher in the future. And then in that case, sustainable activity in space is key for our sustainability at the end.
Kelli Kedis Ogborn:
And that concept of sustainability as you know and I know is increasingly becoming a point that is pervasive in almost every aspect of space, but particularly when you talk about sis lunar, it really is a cornerstone and an anchor of all of the missions, whether they’re commercial, scientific or elsewhere.
Takeshi Hakamada:
Yes.
Kelli Kedis Ogborn:
So, for your company in particular, I do want to talk a little bit about your missions, your recent mission, your current mission, and then your planned missions because I know that there are really interesting outputs such as a Reiff contract that you’re pursuing with NASA. So can you really touch upon what is the focus of iSpace? What are these missions going to really teach us for future exploration and for future commercial gains?
Takeshi Hakamada:
Of course, we’re conducting our second mission right now and our resilience run is right now, well on the way to the moon and then this is our second mission. And then we did first mission in the couple years ago and then unfortunately we cannot run on the moon successfully. However, we managed to operate our under very close to the touchdown operation. So technologically we completed many things and then last time as well we defined 10 milestones until running and then we completed anti success eight last time success nine was the running itself. And then this time we set similar milestone 10 milestones again and then we completed until the currently success five do now fly by. And then thanks to the mission one’s experience, while operation is very smooth, nothing very critical, how can I say, things not happening. So I feel very, how can I say, relaxed seeing the operation.
And then this mission itself is not just landed on the moon, but we are attempt to, well deploy our rover developed by Luxem book entity and then conduct the technology demonstration for the surface operation surface exploration. And then we bring several payload and then expecting some mission operation on the lunar surface. And then one of them is, as you mentioned, lunar Reist transaction. We are going to capture lunar Reist by the scope on our lunar rover and then we are going to sell the part of the lunar regular release to NASA as expectedly fast lunar, fast lunar resource transaction, commercial transaction. And then also we have another way to, we are going to use the R landing foot to capture the deliveries. So this is another way to sell the lunar ies. And then not only that operation, we have several payroll, commercial payroll as well. One of the largest is well water electricity device expecting once we have water on the moon, we need to separate split water from water to hydrogen and oxygen. And we are going to do such an experiment on the moon at this time we are going to bring water from the earth, but this going to be fast where water X three will experiment on the renal software and then this payload experiment will device is developed by the Japanese company.
Kelli Kedis Ogborn:
Is the idea around these, I mean it’s very exciting because we talk about resource extraction and mining and all of these areas in the Lunar landscape that are really critical linchpins to enabling other industries to operate in the future. And you’re doing a lot of these with this mission, at least laying the groundwork for them. Is the idea to prove out the concept that there can be a regularly commercial transaction and that we can extract water for future infrastructure or what is the kind lessons learned, ideas to be gained and what is it seeding for the future?
Takeshi Hakamada:
Well, it’s connected to our vision. Our vision is expand our product, expand the future, which means we want to extend our human presence into outdoor space. And in order to do that sustainable way, we believe we need to establish economy in space. And then the first well element to initiate the economy, we believe it’s space resource utilization and especially water going to be very critical element resources on the moon. And then so we have large interest utilizing the water from the beginning. And then also I think CUNA become not only just for science but also for the industry in the future once we can utilize resources in space. So we try to invite, well attract more company currently not related to the space industry, however we require such a technology or the business in the future once we can utilize resources in space. And then this is one of the example that still not the, how I say this is still phases of course. However, in order to show the world what we could do in the future from the beginning, we can inspire more people, more players, and then we can bring such a prayer use in the future when we are ready to utilize such a resources in space.
Kelli Kedis Ogborn:
I think the inspiration piece is really key for a couple of reasons. One, as you mentioned, it’s inspiring people to think about space again in a different way, but to the point that you’re making, it’s also getting other industries to know that there is engagement to be had on the lunar surface and within this clin or space there just needs to be someone to do it first. And I’m curious from your perspective, because as I mentioned in the beginning, in the past three months, there’s been so much lunar activity from companies. And why do you think it’s all happening now? Is it because the technology is finally at a point of maturity? Is it a geopolitical environment? It’s just interesting that all of these missions happened within the first 30 days of each other.
Takeshi Hakamada:
Well, that is very interesting question. Yeah. Well, my observation is what I’m seeing now is very exciting. Multiple companies are going to the moon and actually two of the company already run. That is great. And because I participated Google XPRIZE more than 10 years ago, I see the long history of this commercial learner activities. And then my observation is technology is always there and the point is whether where player can have enough funding and enough engineers, people to conduct to manage the program itself. And I feel like right after the green XPRIZE, well the companies become easier, not easier, but able to gather more fund and then they can start actual development of the lunar round. I think part of the reason is NASA, commercial lunar payroll, transportation service as well clips. And then thanks to that kind of the program, many companies started to see that this is a market and then there’s a market and then they can start, we’re raising money from the investors or the market.
Kelli Kedis Ogborn:
It’s really interesting to get your perspective on that because last week I was in Arizona for Arizona Space Summit and we were talking about this, how do you enable an ecosystem, an earned environment? And partially it is what you said, it’s everything around it. The technology is there, but it’s the temperament to go after these markets. It’s the investment to scale the technology, it’s getting the talent to take a chance on these leap ahead capabilities and technologies that may seem crazy, but they’re not. You just have to follow a pretty rigid, should I say, kind of biz dev timeline and tech timeline to actually
Takeshi Hakamada:
Achieve it. And then especially the space industry, people think that technology is key. Of course it’s key. However, we don’t need, especially during early phases, we don’t need unique technologies where people know that in this 50 years ago up already run the moon and there is a technology already. However, it was very huge investment at the time. And then so now our challenge is as a commercial effort, how we can develop similar technology with deeper and then shorter time of the period where commercial companies can afford to.
Kelli Kedis Ogborn:
Absolutely, yeah. It’s also the past months really illustrated that now really is the time to take a chance on these ecosystems as well. And I’m curious, as you see this build out, what role do you think private sector investment plays versus government funding to sort of further develop out the sis lunar industry? Because they both are very critical components, they both lead and follow at different times. And how do you see it building out in this environment?
Takeshi Hakamada:
Well, that is also the interesting question to me to iSpace because iSpace well have kind of unique, well history of the relationship with government and the private sector. I feel especially in the United States government are the investment most of the time. For example, NASA clips supported well because of the clips there is a market and investors more comfortable to invest money. But in our case, well we started from purely commercial investment
Kelli Kedis Ogborn:
From the beginning.
Takeshi Hakamada:
No, we don’t have any government support at the beginning commercial
Kelli Kedis Ogborn:
From the beginning. That’s incredible.
Takeshi Hakamada:
And then Japanese government doesn’t, haven’t had such a program to procure Una transportation service in the past. And then even now and then, so we are well trying to acquire, raise the fund for the much stronger vision. And also not only just Japan, but also we have may have the business United States or the Europe outside Japan as well. And then we try to gather the private funding. And then until few years ago, we didn’t receive any significant government funding from Japan. So we survived only well the privates or the business cashing.
Kelli Kedis Ogborn:
That’s interesting. Do you feel that the landscape of investment is catching up with where the opportunity is? And I’ll tell you what I mean by that. So obviously you’re tackling a very big challenge, which is, and it’s a necessary challenge because as you mentioned in the beginning, it’s going to prove different capabilities possible. It’s going to lay the ground for other industries to engage quite literally on the lunar surface. And we are starting to see at least confidence, I think coming back into the space market after the SPAC boom and bust and people really realizing what are real space companies, what are PowerPoint companies? But part of the challenge for that was that some investors looked more toward near term ROI. And I think we’re starting to see that shift. But with things like this, I mean you are going to be proving real viable missions right now, but the ecosystem and the infrastructure may take five to 10 years to build out. So are you confident in the investment side and hopefully we’re getting more diverse types of capital?
Takeshi Hakamada:
Yes, that is my belief. So that’s why I am still keep doing this. Well, from our history, we are lucky because we participated good experts and then even the smaller scale, we verified that our technology business model, business cases, and at the time of the UNA experts already we developed, finished the development of the Gunnar Rover at the time freight model. And then we verified that well sponsorship model that we could do several million were business using that model. And then that kind of the fact support our larger fundraising in the future. And then also not only will ask how can you say developing rover or so on, but also we picture out the larger ecosystem type of division. And it’s not only us to do business, every other players can do the business in the same C Luna field. And then we try to deliver the message to the different type of the companies. And then they started to show the interest to working together with us.
Kelli Kedis Ogborn:
Yeah, yeah. Prove the point and then other people will come. And I’m curious from your perspective, when you see this sis lunar space evolving and particularly the economic side, what are the critical gaps that you think need to happen first to enable it? Is it communications, is it transportation? Is it energy? What’s really going to be that element that’s proven that then allows the others to come forth?
Takeshi Hakamada:
Well, considering the well ecosystem architecture, system wise, transportation, going to forest without transportation, it’s impossible to reach to the moon and then to do anything around the moon or on the moon. So starting from the transportation, however, after the transportation, I see some of the key infrastructure will be required for the more efficient or sustainable activity in system. The first is communication and the second is navigation. And the third is power generation, power supply. These are three key element to sustain the activity on the moon or the in.
Kelli Kedis Ogborn:
Do you have any preference or leaning toward what power is the best? And the reason I say that is there’s conversations around nuclear and solar and other alternative energies. Have you given any thought to that?
Takeshi Hakamada:
Well, there’s a lot of the discussion right now. What kind of the power source would be required in the future and then as a baseline? Well, we should have the same understanding that Luna especially do not surface is very severe environment and especially lunar night or these poorer area, the temperature is going down to the minus 150, 200 degree. So it’s very, somehow condition is very severe. And then also there’s two, excuse me, that night we will continue about two weeks with a so, so we need to understand such environment at the past and then considering that element where most people think that nuclear power is essential to have continuous operation, especially south pole vision. And then however, I don’t think that nuclear power, only nuclear power is required. I think different type of the energy power generation will be required depending on the operation. So I don’t think solar, solar panel is not required in the future, still required however, and then not only just the solar power but also the nuclear power will be required in the future.
Kelli Kedis Ogborn:
So, it can be a hybrid approach depending on the mission set on the surface.
Takeshi Hakamada:
And then every power sources have different characteristics. And as a system perspective, we will utilize such a different type of technology and then optimize our system.
Kelli Kedis Ogborn:
Interesting. Yeah, you’re the first that I’ve actually heard say the multi-pronged approach of the different type of energy sources. But I mean it makes sense. It’s the same thing when you talk about different transportation systems, there’s different types of systems that interact with other systems based on payload capacity and mission set. And it just makes sense that the energy also follows the same kind of tiered and multi-pronged approach. So my last question around the technology sort of side and then I want to move the conversation a bit more human, but let’s say that we’re now five to 10 years, we’re 10 years out and this ecosystem and economy has been established, there’s infrastructure on the moon. When you look at the economic and commercial side, what industries do you think are best positioned to capitalize on that economy first?
Takeshi Hakamada:
Well, this is I think our position, but we have strong interest to utilize resources. So, the mining or the resource industry going to be the first industry to take such an economy. And then also in order to support such a mining or these ization business activities, I think basic infrastructure like communication, power system, so on such a player be fundamentally required and then they can do the business in this ecosystem from the beginning
Kelli Kedis Ogborn:
That seems to be of increasing interest but also relevance to a lot of industries. And if you can take that stuff off world, it reduces potential conflict, it reduces potential conflict and some of the polluting aspects and moving to more of the human side. And I kind of want to stay on this thread of the resource extraction and property rights in space because we’re entering a domain that has never really never been engaged before. And how do you think that national and international regulations will shape this economy, especially when you look at commercial entities extracting and potentially selling for economic gain?
Takeshi Hakamada:
Well, so we already start onboarding resource, how can I say? Transaction, not extracting, we’re correctly saying, but so from our position, we believe that our commercial activities for the utilization resources is key. Of course government is a major player in this field as well. However, considering the outdoor space role, we believe that commercial activity going to be the front activity to deal with the resource well utilization, considering the ownership rights so on. And then government side will be key hub, key role to regulate, monitor such activity for the peaceful activities so on. And then however, such a discussion is still not a who discussed and then there’s no concrete agreement internationally. And then I hope our learn legalist transaction are going to be key case to have more concrete discussion how we can deal with such a transaction and the future activities, how we can Dee or operate such a resource utilization in a peaceful way.
Kelli Kedis Ogborn:
Yeah, it’ll be a good proving ground or case study to figure out how it’s going to build out. And one step further from that, when you think about the lunar surface, there’s a lot conversation around cultural preservation of Armstrong’s footprints and others, and also just overall environmental aspects. And when you look at that future, how do you think that we can balance the economic incentives that that environment brings with some of the other concerns around environment and culture and having nobody own the moon?
Takeshi Hakamada:
Well, that is a very difficult question to predict everything right now. Well, however, there’s a couple of things I can think of. The first is, well, we need to consider from the industry side, we need to always recognize ourselves as a key player and we need to advocate what would be important for the industry, sustainable growth of the business or the sustainable activities on Nar, surface utility resources. And also from the government side, well, I hope they have more say conversation, not only just decorating in the detail, but from the system wise, how we can develop our activities in the future. And I don’t think we don’t need to decorate everything from the beginning in the very detail. We can allow some of the activity and then we can narrow down the field to regulate. And then of course we don’t need to, we should not forget about how we can sustainable our activity on the moon from the industry side, just for the economic incentive. We should not say destroy the environment completely and then we need to find the virus at the end.
Kelli Kedis Ogborn:
Yeah, it’s a really interesting and evolving conversation and you hit it in the beginning. It’s hard to fully talk through it with confidence when we’re talking about situations that are yet to be engaged, but everyone is moving in that direction. And so there’s a lot of considerations to take into account.
Takeshi Hakamada:
And then another point is in order, when we going to discuss how we going to utilize as well regulate the environment, most people were based to discuss things based on the current technology. However, technology going to be advanced in the future. And so we should, how can I say, keep the room for the future advanced technologies.
Kelli Kedis Ogborn:
Yeah. Well, and I really like this optimistic picture that you paint because you really doubled down on the fact that industry does need to recognize that they’re a key player and a key leader and have a lot of opportunity and responsibility to develop this ecosystem in a way that is sustainable and also can be profitable. At the end of the day, you’re getting private money and at some point there needs to be some sort of economic return. I’m curious in the cis lunar space, and you may need to answer this a couple of different ways, but how do we define right now return on investment for some of these early venture funding?
Takeshi Hakamada:
Well, so very near term would be the business with government like NASA program. Well, we recognize our government is customer, and then having that business we can build the transportation business and then we can be sustainable and then we are ready to invest to the next business on the way of the transportation. And then the government, I believe there is still need needs for the science, for the exploration, go to the moon and to do some activity on the renal surface. But government itself will not develop hardware by themselves. So they need to rely on, utilize the commercial capability, and then that’s going to be more sustainable and benefit for the government because they can select, they can keep several pre use depending on the needs or the timelines. So
Kelli Kedis Ogborn:
Yeah, no, that’s the iterative approach is definitely the way that it’s going to go to and should play out. So for my last question for you, admittedly, this is a bit of a grenade, but you’re the perfect person to ask this to primarily because you’ve been thinking about this ecosystem for a very long time and engaging in it. So when we talk about the moon, we can’t forget how our origins began with lunar engagement with the space race between the United States and the USSR. So the moon was always this object of geopolitical conflict. And now there’s so many other ways to engage. It’s not just countries, it’s companies, however, geopolitics always plays a part. And so when industries and companies are navigating this space and wanting to engage in the sis lunar landscape, how can they best think about geopolitical competition and potential security concerns while they’re building out their business models?
Takeshi Hakamada:
Well, that is also difficult question in this timing, especially in this timing. I would say from the iSpace perspective, well, the other industry, well, we want to have sustainable, stable environment ecosystem in space. And I agree, understand that geopolitical or national security is one of the source of the needs activity in space. And I don’t think we can neglect the power or the needs. However, still that is one of the, how can I say, element of the ecosystem, not the entire picture. And so I believe that in the future currently, will geo political situation increase the needs in space for sure. However, this is not only the part. So, as an industry level, we can more facilitate economic incentive in space activities and then take a balance between the geo ation and then more business worthy industry incentive, more sustainable way. And then as an ice space, our strategy is not to rely on this single nation we have operation across in Japan, but also the US operation as well. And then in the Europe operation, we want to take a balance, having the suite location internally ourself.
Kelli Kedis Ogborn:
I appreciate you taking that question on. It is an interesting mix, and I agree with you that it’s part of the equation. What’s nice about the way that the future is evolving is back in the 1960s it was the equation and now it’s part of it. And when we look to this future, it needs to be collaborative and competitive and commercial and global and government led. And it’s definitely an interesting time. And again, I appreciate your optimism on where we’re going and the necessity for all this engagement.
Takeshi Hakamada:
Yes. Well, and then right now, well donation is very key player because we are also contributing government needs. So even though we are working in Japan, but also especially in United States, we have separate operation in United States, over a hundred people, and then we are investing well over a hundred millions of dollars in the United States, and then contribute the United States as well, and then in the Europe as well. So that kind of the contribution as a basis is I believe the important to take a balance.
Kelli Kedis Ogborn:
Oh, absolutely. And your company is a really interesting success model of international engagement and expansion, right? To be able to interact with the industries and the governments that are really driving the future. And I am very excited for the future. I’m going to go tonight and look at the moon in a very different way, and I wish you a lot of success. And I know that for me and the listeners, we’ll be looking out June 5th to hopefully get a successful landing on the moon. So Haan, thank you so much for joining us today.
Takeshi Hakamada:
Thank you very much.
Kelli Kedis Ogborn:
Yeah, this was a really fun discussion. And for all of the listeners, thank you for tuning in. Thank you for your questions. And just remember, there’s a place for everyone in the global space ecosystem. We’ll catch you next time.
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