Shelli Brunswick Interview with Mac Malkawi, Founder and President, Borderless Labs, Inc
Written by: Space Foundation Editorial Team
Well, hello and welcome to another Space Foundation Space Commerce Entrepreneurial Interview. I’m Shelli Brunswick, Chief Operating Officer at Space Foundation. Today I have the privilege to talk with Mac Malkawi, the president of Borderless Labs, Inc. Well welcome Mac.
Thanks for having me over Shelli, always excited to see everything you guys are doing at Space Foundation.
Well, we’re so excited you could join us. Mac is a Jordanian American businessman, learner space nut, philanthropist, explorer, entrepreneur. And science fiction fan he’s the founder and president of Borderless Labs, Inc. He is on a mission to create online educational steam content for underserved communities in multiple languages worldwide while bringing access to space through inspiration by building science clubs, maker spaces, space camps, and analog astronaut experiences for underserved communities, Mac, it is such an honor to have you on the show today. And this is so exciting what you’re doing with Borderless Labs, Inc. Can you tell us more about that?
Yeah, thanks. Uh, absolutely. I mean, just like you mentioned, thank you for that introduction. Um, I’m that kid who, uh, who was the nerd and I loved watching documentaries my entire life, and I just loved, I was that kid who saw Carl Sagan in 1980, did revolutionize the world of inspiring the world through revolutionizing documentaries. So that’s how I wanted to and science fiction. And I’m sure I’m not the only one there, but I’ve noticed that it was always in English. So, when I go back and visit our home country of Jordan, I would talk to our other nerd, friends who love science, but there wasn’t the same level of, uh, information there. And I say, well, why don’t you just watch these documentaries? Well, they don’t speak English. So those documentaries are only in English. Limited to two lines of translation. And now it’s back in the eighties. And then when I revisited back in the nineties and the two and the, the, in the 21st century, it’s the same documentaries, but not only translated now they’re done. But I didn’t see any Arabic speaking people who are making documentaries in their own language. So, I saw not only a philanthropic Arabic, maybe, but also a business case to be able to say, you know what, I could probably do something really good and find a sustainable way of making it. So, uh, yeah, it was just in me being a nerd, wanting to be able to give access to nerds out there with the love of science and STEAM.
That’s amazing. And again, one of the things you highlighted about being an entrepreneur is you’re there to solve a problem and you saw a problem and you were able to, to, um, find a solution. So again, tell us a little bit about your background and growing up and your journey to where you are today.
Um, I’m too young to be a, an Apollo generation. Uh, but, uh, I’m at that age where I was five years old when Cosmos came out. So, my dad being the science education professor who had PhD. at uh, Michigan State University and he spent more than his salary to buy this new invention called a VHS beta max recorder, because his friend from some university out in the, in New York made this new show called Cosmos. Carl Sagan made Cosmos and he, and he tells me, figure out how to use it, this machine I just bought and record, Saigon is going to be on TV, he called him Saigon. And, uh, it was so cute. And so, we recorded it for my dad because he wanted to watch Cosmos. And I was like, oh my God, this is amazing. And a year later, the shuttle, uh, launched and, well, that was amazing. So, for a six-year-old to be inspired by that. So, um, I realized the, so coming from a background to answer your question, of being inspired by science, loving parents, I was lucky, uh, and being inspired, by being able to have free access to inspiration through videos, I was also lucky. Being able to go to museum after museum and see, and being inspired, I was so lucky. So how did I become the way I was? I figured out a lifetime worth of being inspired. So, when you realize. There are so many hundreds of millions of people in those different languages that don’t have that opportunity to be inspired by going to a Space Foundation, by going to a Smithsonian. Well, I could probably give them access to that through online educational content because it’s available to them.
That’s great. I love the background. And again, a lot of it is about inspiring youth to find new careers and new opportunities and to even consider being an entrepreneur, so that inspiration.
Now I’m going to pivot back to being an entrepreneur. And when you started your company, um, you know, initially you got to have the concept and the marketing and the research and the funding. So how did you start? You had a great idea for a company, but how did you get it up and running and started and funded and create the business case for it?
It didn’t start off as a company. It started off as a one-off just philanthropic expense is how I looked at it. And, uh, I know at NASA they call these, uh, drive-bys or drive by shootings or something like that you just throw your money as a one-time expense on something that’s never going to give you a return. And I’m sure at Space Foundation, you’ve funded a lot of projects that, you know, have gone as a one-time thing that people hit, like that one time and it, and it never replicated, or it never gave, uh, the, uh, um, uh, the results that you, you would have hoped for. But that was, I just wanted to do my PhD and aerospace systems engineering, and I wanted to build a cube sat. Now in 2015, cube SATs were a new revolution of being able to be just a 10 centimeter by 10 centimeter by 10 centimeter, little device that can hold enough electronics and data and processing as a school bus worth of, uh, of a satellite in the 60’s, 70’s, and even and even 80’s is a revolution to electronics in, in the industry and its inspiration by itself. But what I said is I want to come up with a project and I don’t want to build it myself. I want to get refugees and kids around the world to be able to build the different components of it. And for me to be able to inspire them to say, Hey, I built something that went to space.
So, for me, it’s, I just want to do my PhD. I want to build a satellite that had science It’s never flown in space before. And that kind of engagement involvement in inclusive MIS that I wanted to do was my idea of marrying my two passions. Science, science education and STEAM and philanthropy. So not giving people food and water and shelter, but you know, inspiring them to become something in the future because why wanting to become a scientist. So, it didn’t start off as a business model. It started off as just a philanthropic, um, expense. But then I realized, well, wait a minute, how am I going to make this sustainable? You know, so after my first expense project, you know, I figured, oh yeah, a drive by doesn’t work this way and I’m going to need to come back year after year and do this in multiple schools. And now I’m in, you know, I’m all in here. So, I have to fund these school projects and I figured, okay, well, if I can get a grant, then I can fund five schools just to do maker-space as maker facilities is what they call them. And they’re still doing great. And they’re doing a lot of PBS type, uh, activities and, and it’s wonderful. I’m like, but that’s still not sustainable. So, I found a business model of being able to, um, to create revenue off of making their own documentaries basically. And, uh, and and make it self-sustainable as a test project in the Arabic world. And from there be able to scale it to different languages like Hindi and Farsi and Urdu and Swahili.
And that is amazing. And again, you kind of highlight that you followed your passion. Part of your research project, and then you were able to convert your passion into a business. And many times, that’s what entrepreneurs do in the space industry. They’re doing research. They realize they have a passion; they follow the passion. And the other part you had highlighted was it has to be sustainable because if it’s not sustainable or doesn’t generate money, then it’s a hobby and you can have hobbies that are philanthropic and that’s important, but again, to make it a sustainable business model, you had to make it replicable and be able to find uh, you know, uh, donors who, uh, a business model that would sustain it, whether it’s donors or a revenue stream. So amazing how you did this and creating that access and opportunity for all. Were there some partners along the way that helped you in this journey of creating this business?
One of the most important things I’ve noticed as I get older, and whether it’s in philanthropy, whether it’s in business, whether it’s in just in life is not the size of your wallet, but the size of your Rolodex. And if I had done this in my twenties, it would have probably been a miserable failure, but, it is such a relief to be able to pick up the phone and call someone who is running a project in a refugee camp. And you say, Hey, remember me back in our twenties, we went on this philanthropic thing back in, in, in, in the, in the Peace Corps. And he’s running a big project in a refugee camp in Jordan right now. This is what I’m doing, you know? Can you get me a couple of hundred students for us to do a science fair idea? He’s like, yeah, I miss you. Great. And remind, we reminded each other, uh, Chris, uh, Chris Rhodes from Quest Scope for Social Development in the Middle East, love you, thank you for everything, and he said, you know what? I don’t think I can help you, but what you’re doing, you’re probably going to want to reach out to two people, UNHCR, and, um, Rob Don works at UNHCR, I’m like no way. We reach out to UNHCRs United nations, high commissioner for refugees. And she says, oh, I remember what you’re doing, love what you’re doing. Cause nobody’s talking about science or space or inspiration or encouragement. Everyone just wants to give food and shelter and everything. We love your idea, but we don’t do schools and education. You’re going to want to talk to relief international. Now I’ll tell you what. Let me introduce you. And all of a sudden, in less than 24 hours, I have a front row seat to very big, important people at relief international, where within a week we had the whole thing scheduled with thousands of kids, you know, and, and hundreds of teachers just waiting for our program just by making that one phone call to someone I, you know, experienced, you know, this.
So, the networking. Uh, what was, uh, amazing. So, uh, I, I have to thank everyone at UNH CR. Uh, critical for social development in the middle east. And, um, and really my dad, when I was a kid reminding me to build relationships because, uh, without networking, none of your projects, whether it’s personal professional or even business, meaning.
I think that’s amazing. And I have to share that, um, just this morning, um, an organization posted a question on Facebook that said, what would you tell the 21-year-old version of yourself? And I answered the question and I said, you know, build your relationships. Life is all about relationships building and maintaining relationships growing your network, because ultimately that’s going to build and grow your career. So, uh, Mac, what timely, uh, advice to give to everyone. And, and obviously your dad, uh, gets credit on that trademark because he came up with it long before you and I ever thought of it. So, it’s all about building your relationships and you carry those relationships with you through life. So, obviously, you know, you’ve had some good help along the way, but have you had some challenges as you’ve been going through this project?
I mean, every, uh, as a businessman by day, uh, didn’t talk about this, but I’m a petroleum equipment system engineer by day. So, I, I do have a day job at the moment. Um, I plan on doing borderless labs full-time by next year. Now that I’ve made it self sustainable, but, just like in business, you’re going to fail. You’re going to run into challenges and you’re going to run into failures and you’re going to run into successes. But, um, you know, the w one of the greatest challenges I faced is that not everyone is going to share your vision. Um, not everyone is going to value you for who you are. Most people are going to value you for who, for what you can provide for them. And, my failure was not having that awareness. So, I blamed myself there. Now that I have that, you know, I don’t want to say mistrust. I want to say trust but verify. I learned that from Jim Green. Thank you, Jim Green from NASA and teaching that trust, but verify is that, um, I’m not talking mouse. I’m just saying, if you put too much trust, when you’re such a small team, all it takes is one person to make the whole thing fall apart. So, my failure was not treating this as a ruthless businessman. I am in petroleum and more of a philanthropy. was, um, was that I should have done what we, the same we do in business a lot, which is hire slow and fire fast. Um, you have to, for the sake of yourself, the team, the business, and that the whole project, sometimes you just have to be that ruthless businessman that, uh, and it’s hard to say, but if you’re talking about entrepreneurship and entrepreneurs, Um, it, it’s, it’s an ugly part of the job, but it’s a necessary one, especially if you have a small team.
Absolutely. Um, you know, you’re only as strong as your weakest link and that’s one of the critical things as an entrepreneur is you have to hire in that right team. And it’s all about the team. And that’s what investors look at too. So, thank you, Mac. Well, we’re going to take a short break for some great insight on what’s happening at Space Foundation.
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Welcome back to our entrepreneurial interview with Mac Malkawi, the president of Borderless Labs, Inc. Well, Mac, our last question was about your biggest challenges, but let’s talk about what are some of your biggest successes now?
Oh, I mean, when you inspire people to be able to create something, you just never know what they can finally accomplish. And one of the, uh, there’s a lot of wonderful successes, but my very first scholarship went to an engineering student in Jordan, at a small university in Northern Jordan called University of Science Technology. His name is Eric goes by Monte now and he just wanted to build a satellite. He just wanted to, he loved engineering so much. And he was just a depressed student who thought he was just going to end up being some electrician somewhere for the rest of his life. Just like, uh, the previous engineers who graduated before him. And I’m so fortunate that the inspiration, he got enabled him to be that person who is part of the team who built one unit cube satellite, even though it was just a simple one unit cubes, it’s still a satellite, now Jordan can say it is one of those countries that launched something into space. And for him to have the honor to be one of those students was a dream come true, but it doesn’t stop there after launching that satellite. Now he works at a, um, uh, satellite manufacturing company in the Netherlands called Innovative Solutions in Space. And I invited him over to the IAC 2019 and Washington DC. Oh, from there, I introduced him to Bill Nye the Science Guy, and for him to meet one of his lifelong, you know, inspirational, you know, people look at the smile on his face right there. And just a couple of years ago he was a depressed student and we thought he’s never going to do anything in life. And he met one of his biggest idols who is called Nickel. Yeah. This is the astronaut who fixed Hubble and had the idea and the know-how and the patience and everything to actually go up to Hubble multiple times and give us the amazing science that came out of the Hubble space telescope. And just look at that smile. He met Buzz Aldrin, the second man to walk on the moon, Apollo 11, you know, right there at the IAC. He met Jim Bridenstien, head of NASA at the time. And this is one of my favorites. When you look at this picture, you see the moon and you see the earth. Take a look at that tiny little black dot on the earth. That is the shadow of the moon on the earth. Now this was in 2019 or 2018, or that it was that solar eclipse that happened in Argentina and Chile, and, the reason why this picture is so precious and valuable is this is the world’s first picture that took a picture of an eclipse, a solar eclipse from the view of the moon. Monte was the guy who designed and built the powers of PI of the satellite that took this picture. His name is engraved on that board. Of that, that took this picture. And, and, and for me to be able to see that this is what he, he made out of himself to me was, you know, when I showed it to Bill Nye, the Science Guy that day, when I introduced it to him, you know, he was incredibly amazing to everyone.
Well, here’s the story here’s like, yeah, you never know who you can expect inspiring you and what they can make out of themselves. Um, his next satellite that is launching is going to launch by Virgin orbit. Those are his hands right there. That green board is the power supply. That’s supplying on this board. And Virgin orbit is going to launch it into space for, uh, for the Netherlands. And, uh, and, uh, I mean, you can’t make this up. It’s amazing. I love those experiences and that was just our first scholarship. So when you talk about our second scholarship is a who lived in a refugee camp and she wasn’t even supposed to be part of our program.
She was just, uh, You hear the stories of refugees and how they, you know, they walked across the Syrian desert and saw, you know, their dead friends on the sides of the road and everything. So that there’s a lot of these sad stories, but where you’re to say what, you know, you can make out of yourselves and, you know, went through those months of, you know, going through the civil war, no electricity, everything. So, you see them the night sky, as it was meant to be seen, you see the Milky Way. And she, she, she was just amazed at how she could see shooting stars all the time or these meteorites falling. So, she loved space. She fell in love with space, and now they have what we didn’t have when we were kids. They have at their disposal. So, when we had the science day and we are building these rocket models in 3d printing and building little cube sets, there was this pounding on the door at the refugee camp tent, actually. And this one girl wanted to get in joint to meet the NASA folks. And we’re not NASA folks. And I said, it’s okay, let her in. She wants to learn about science and please just let her in. And of course, tears coming down, her eyes and, and, um, we were taking pictures of all of the refugee kids wearing astronaut space suits so they can remember this day forever. And she was talking about to us about pulsars and quasars and black holes and globular clusters. Surely, I didn’t know what a globular cluster was. And I was asking her, you know, all this. And she said from the Google, that was like, wow. So that’s going to, came to me, came to me and said, if I keep on doing uh, science fairs like this, you’re changing the life of these 20 kids, but if you make documentaries and put them on YouTube and Google and everything, then you’re changing kids lives of thousands of kids and thousands and thousands. And it’s evergreen. It’s there for the next person to be inspired as long as it’s in their language in a way that they can be inspired by it. So now. She has become that science communicator who’s talking about the globular clusters and black holes and has this huge, amazing um, astronomy course that she does on YouTube. And, uh, she is now an engineering student on the local universities. And, uh, uh, in Jordan, she wasn’t supposed to be one because relief, uh, United States canceled all, uh, uh, funding for, uh, refugees at the time and relief international kind of shut down their projects. So, her school closed. Luckily her parents were, were insistent on her, uh, continuing her education. So, she uh, self-schooled, uh, homeschooled yourself through college, through high school. And, uh, and, and, and, and past what would just, you know, pass with really good grades, which is, you know, a huge, uh, you know, uh, achievement, but she spent the following year saying, well, I passed, but then what? I don’t have money to go to college. So, by starting these. Her story and starting these, uh, uh, stem, uh, YouTube, uh, programs and, and educational videos, the UN now is sponsoring her. A degree. And she is a full-time engineering student studying, uh, renewable energy engineering at one of the local schools. And, and, and, and to me, I’m looking forward to take her to the IAC in Dubai in 2021 to share her story just like we did with Monte. And, uh, and that’s just two of the amazing stories.
So, it’ll go on and on and on. And, uh, those are just two and I hope someone listening is, will be just as inspired as they were, and they made something out of themselves? Those are probably some of the most exciting and hopeful success stories I’ve heard during our entrepreneurial interview series. And, and again, it it’s highlighting that you are creating access and opportunity, and you’re giving hope to the next generation and the future leaders in space who may not even know that they’re going to be the future leaders in space. So, thank you for that. I do want to ask you about starting this adventure that you’re on. What are some lessons learned that you learned about the business model that you could share with other entrepreneurs who are wanting to be entrepreneurs or maybe especially entrepreneurs that help individuals find their passion and their goals and their dreams like you’re doing?
If you, one of the mistakes people make is they think, oh, I’m a nonprofit, I have to be a nonprofit. Aye. Immediately made this a for profit company, because for, for, well, the main reason is I’ve never run a non-profit. I lack the experience and, uh, professionalism and know how to do it. I would have to learn something brand new from scratch to make that happen. I don’t know how to always rely on grants and funding, always ask for money and do that.
I would have to learn it from scratch, but I know how to make a product and know how to make value in IP. And I know how to sell it. And I know how to use those funds to be able to fund the next program and repeat that. So, to me, that’s a business model that you can take to market. So you got to test, you, you have to come up with the concept, you have to test it and you have to, uh, fail along the way and you’re going to fail. Uh, and you’re going to keep failing, but you got to ask questions and you have to ask for help. And that’s, I think that’s one of the big things for entrepreneurs, I think, that it is they’re perceived to know everything. Um, meanwhile, the most successful ones I know always pick up the phone and ask someone else. Now I’ve gotten to the point where I’ll pick up the phone and say, Hey, this is what I’m doing. Where am I going to screw up? And tell me why this is going to feel, give me every reason why this is going to fail. And that’s why I’m succeeding is because I. Make sure to not, uh, make sure to not make other people’s mistakes. And, uh, and it took a while to get to that point. So, if you can ask questions and learn from other people’s mistakes, uh, you will have less failures that than you would.
I don’t expect everything to be cupcakes and rainbows. And, um, and, and, and don’t give up doesn’t necessarily mean keep doing the same thing don’t give up means learn and don’t make that same mistake. So, yeah, that’s what I mean by doing. I like that. I mean, entrepreneurs have to be persistent. And I think we’ve learned from Elon Musk, It’s okay to fail, fail fast, learn from it and move on and move on and grow from it. And sometimes failure can be the fastest learning experience to getting to success because sometimes we stepped back as entrepreneurs and we want to mitigate all risk and mitigating, all risks takes a long time, is very expensive, and sometimes you never get to success.
So, I think Mac, you highlight that it, get those advisors to help you so you can learn from them. So, you don’t make those mistakes, but it’s okay to make mistakes and let’s learn from ’em and and move on. And do that rather quickly. So, I know when I’ve made mistakes, I’ve learned a lot more from those than maybe if I read about somebody else’s mistake. So, well, you talked briefly about your knowledge of running a business, a for-profit versus non-for-profit and the differences in those. So, I do want to come back to what makes this, uh, enterprise, uh, financially feasible. What made that, what made that transition for you to it becoming financially feasible?
Um, but again, in this industry and when you’re starting to talk philanthropy, some people might think, you know, the word profit is not a dirty word. The word income, I think. You know, I, we substitute the word income and expense with the word profit and in business, we use the word profit so much that, you know, it just starts to sound unappealing for those who are not dealing with it on a, on a daily basis. But you know, it has to be economically sustainable and um, with any project, you’re going to have expenses and you have to have it repeated and replicated. I love funding projects that make a difference. I love impact sustainability, but I like to see a return on that. Just like I, like, I always joke around and say, I want to disrupt philanthropy. I want to see, I want blend to, to be run like a business. In other words, I want, uh, I want to be able, so if I give a dollar, I want $2 in return not to make myself bridge, just to be able to fund two programs like that. So, we see that a lot. We’re starting to see more and more, um, uh, programs like that that are actually finding that business model. So, um, study the market. Just like you’re trying to run a business, find a problem and see if your solution to that problem is a sellable product. Now, in my case, I was lucky that there’s no science communication in the Arabic language. And there are a lot of people willing to pay to put that information, uh, you know, in front, in front of, uh, in front of eyeballs basically, and pay as long as those eyeballs get to see their ads. So, for me, I found a market. And, uh, so whether I was doing it for philanthropic purpose or not, I could have probably done this with just making, you know, what, there’s already a saturation in the Arabic and OU to do in Farsi market of prank videos and in pseudoscience or makeup tutorials. But if I had done those videos, I was still would have found those advertisers to take. But I happened to sell them on the fact that there are a lot of nerds like me with no content that they would love to see that content, by the way, when they see that content, they’re going to see your product, they might buy it too. So, um, so had I not had that business mentality of talking to them. Um, the, uh, to my buyers, basically as a business, that was my original field. Yeah. You’re talking to them as you’re doing the right thing you’re doing and I failed. But when I started telling them about look how much money you can make by putting this in front of eyeballs of people who don’t have access to what they, they really thrive for now they can see and it’s working. So, yeah. Uh, just goes back to, you know, think, think of, think of it as income, not necessarily as profit.
I think that’s a great way to look at it. Tell us about the importance of advocacy and awareness. Obviously, your program is creating a lot of awareness and advocacy, but for other entrepreneurs, they may not understand the value of advocacy and awareness. And I think hearing your story about it would be really enlightening.
I mean, there are three ways to answer that question. I mean, advocacy, advocacy for yourself, advocacy for others and for your entire industry. And I think it’s a shame that speaking of the space industry, our failure collectively to answer the question, why space. And have really knowledgeable, important people and politicians and everything say, why are we wasting all this money on space is just highlights our failure in advocating for our own industry. Meanwhile, if the space industry shuts down for one day life, as we know, it is over for a very long time, but we don’t advocate enough for it, or we don’t advocate adequately for it. So, uh, the squeaky wheel gets the oil. And, uh, you got to unmute yourself and speak out and speak up and advocate for yourself, advocate for your program advocate for your industry. Otherwise you’re not going to get the funding or otherwise your program might be canceled otherwise. So, there’s always consequences to not advocating. And I think that’s, uh, That should be a good motivator, is that you have to think of the consequences of not advocating because it’s not just a, oh, this is a nice thing to do. Look how many benefits you can get out of it. Um, sometimes you do have to look at it from the perspective of, Hey, if I don’t have advocate my whole program and our whole industry, you know, might not do as good as we’d like it. I think that’s really helpful to highlight that many times people don’t realize that we’re all using space every day. This video is one of those, but whether it’s the breakfast cereal you ate or driving into work or telecommunications or getting on an airplane, We’re using space every day. And the impact of losing space for one day can be over a billion dollars. So, it’s, it’s just an interesting time and I, I appreciate you sharing that. There’s three ways to be advocating for yourself for your business, for your industry. Are there any last words of wisdom you’d like to share with our audience today? Space in general. I, I mean, we’re lucky that we are in the infancy of this industry. I’m old enough to remember when people like Steve Jobs, and Steve Woznick and, and Bill Gates were saying their vision is a computer and everything. And it was laughable to a lot of people who didn’t have vision at the time, but I truly believe that millions of people living and working in space is also a valid vision. Just like a computer in every home was a valid vision. And now not only do we have computers in every home, but all of my devices are smart at home. And, uh, and I think. Millions of people living and working in space is going to happen. It is a valid vision and it is the next frontier. And everyone watching right now, not only is going to be a part of it, but you’re so early in this infancy of a, of an industry is that you’re going to be shaping this business, this whole industry. So, uh, timing, timing, timing. And you’re lucky that you’re in the time that. The people I met five years ago are really big, you know, in the, in their companies right now. So, imagine another five to 10 years from now. So, uh, build network, go to every conference you can go to. I don’t care how much it costs. I mean, when I go to the IAC or something and I introduce Monte to all these people now look at him and he’s shaping it. His design is the blueprint for all cubes. And, uh, and, and just that one, you know, uh, if it, if it costs thousands of dollars, just as an entry fee to entry fee to, to get into that conference, we’ll look at the livelihood that happened thereafter. So, think of your own self in life as an investment as well. Knock on doors on mute yourself. Get yourself noticed. Okay. And, um, and just remember this conversation because it’s, um, um, if you share that vision of a, uh, uh, millions of people living and working in space is going to happen in your lifetime, then it’s also a good investment opportunity as well.
I think that’s wonderful words of wisdom and Mac, we look forward to having you back again after IAC, we look forward to the next pictures of your success stories and thank you for joining us today.
Absolutely. Shelli, thank you for having me and thanks for everything you do at Space Foundation.
Wonderful. Well, if you’re interested in learning more about our Space Commerce program or watching other entrepreneurial webinars, go to SpaceFoundation.org and check out our Space Commerce series. Thank you. And we look forward to seeing you again, there’s a place for everyone in the new global space ecosystem.
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